Cobroxin: Pain Reliever or Placebo?
Some of you may know that I like to trade stocks. You may even follow my trading blog.
One strategy that I like to do is to short sketchy Over-The-Counter Bulletin Board (OTCBB) stocks and pump and dumps. For example, I had a nice profit off of shorting the fraud GVBP and covering near 0 after the SEC stepped in and investigated them.
What's this got to do with this blog?
Well, there's this one particular sketchy company named Nutra Pharma Corp. (NPHC). There's a lot of reasons why this company is shady. Some of these reasons include a CEO with sketchy scientific credentials and who was caught plagiarizing from scientific research, and a former director with a past full of embezzlement charges and FTC false advertising. However, this blog post isn't about the company NPHC...it's about the product they're pushing...Cobroxin.
Cobroxin is supposedly the "the first over-the-counter pain reliever clinically proven to treat various levels of chronic pain associated with lower back pain, shoulder pain, cramps, migraines, neuralgia and arthritis".
The first? Hardly. Plain ol' Tylenol has been shown in numerous studies to be effective in treating chronic pain.
Of course, that's not what's most B.S. about this product. The product is made from cobra venom.
That's right....this pain reliever is made from cobra venom.
Now, the idea isn't totally absurd. There is evidence that cobra venom has components that may have analgesic effects when injected.
However, the problem is with the Cobroxin product itself, and the complete lack of quality evidence to support its efficacy.
Cobroxin's manufacturer provides a list of studies that supposedly showed cobra venom or its components to have pain-relieving effects. However, the majority of the studies they list involved injection of cobra venom or its components. Only 7 out of the listed studies used oral delivery, and only 1 used topical delivery. Of the 7 that used oral delivery, 6 of them did not report the dose used. 1 of them was only presented as an abstract at a conference and was never published in full form in a peer-reviewed journal. There is no reference for another one (Xu et al, 2001). 2 more of them were presented in a Chinese journal (Journal of Snake), and there is no mention of placebo controls or blinding. 3 of these didn't even look at pain.
The fact is, the research presented that supposedly supports the use of Cobroxin is of extremely low quality (even the injection studies). Many of the studies listed don't involve blinding, placebo controls, randomization, or any of the other things that are necessary for an adequate study. Many of the studies presented are of so low quality, they would never be accepted in today's peer-reviewed journals (particularly in American or European journals, which are more stringent than Chinese journals). Also, none of these studies involved Cobroxin itself; they are just studies on cobra venom and its components.
When it comes to pain relief, unblinded studies and studies that lack a placebo control are worthless. It is well established that there is a significant placebo effect in analgesia studies. Just the mere suggestion that a substance might relieve your pain will often actually reduce your pain, even if the substance has absolutely no biological effect. There is evidence that the expectation of pain relief causes the release of dopamine and opioids, which, in turn, have an analgesic effect.
Another reason to be skeptical of Cobroxin is the long list of ailments that cobra venom or its components supposedly treat. In this document, the manufacturer lists the treatment of everything from pain to diabetes to cancer to addiction. Any time an ingredient is presented as a near "cure-all", it should be viewed with skepticism.
The fact is, there are no double-blind, placebo-controlled trials on Cobroxin published in peer-reviewed journals. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The claims being made about this product are quite extraordinary....that it causes significant pain relief for moderate to severe chronic pain, across a wide variety of medical conditions. And this is all without major side effects. Such claims require much more evidence then the sketchy evidence that has been provided thus far. However, given the shady history of Nutrapharma's executives, I doubt we'll ever see this level of evidence.
Disclosure: I do NOT hold any position in NPHC, and never have. I just find the claims being made about this product quite amusing, and deserving of a blog post.
Oh my I see you now removed the blog and the site is no longer available! You and Sykes are real pieces of work. This is just pitiful and shameful, but you will see soon enough that you will be exposed in this matter, as NPHC will be doing trials in early 2011 as earlier announced. Then again you will probably just shut down this blog page and start a new one, like you did previously after being bombarded with numerous testimonials and science that backed up the use of cobra venom for pain. Your incentives for attacking this company… Read more »
SLB, It is very difficult for me to have patience with people like you who will make accusations based on no evidence whatsoever. Rather than carefully researching if what you say is actually correct, you come onto my site with your guns blazing, shooting first and asking questions later. Oh my I see you now removed the blog and the site is no longer available! I did not remove the blog, and my site is still available. You just posted an incorrect link. The correct link is here: http://www.welcometothegutter.com/2010/01/my-trade-performance-using-tim-sykes.html My full site is still up here: http://www.welcometothegutter.com If you had… Read more »
Oh I believe you are hiding your real relationship with Sykes as disclosed below where you admit receiving commission for products sold via your site. That means you are scratching each others back and you know Sykes is shorting this and thus your attack on NPHC and their product Cobroxin. If you really wanted to know how well it really worked you have 10 friends and/or family try it and give you there honest evaluation, but we know that won’t happen because you are too cheap for one and because you would know that just because they didn’t do a… Read more »
Matt, Krieger is suffering from some sort of “Blogger Disease” found in today’s youth. He apparently has some “stock related” issue with the makers of Cobroxin. He is very narrow minded and his education may not be founded in the the basic sciences like chemistry. I suspect his degree is in Physical Education, Hence, Weightology. That is as broad as a barn door. As an Arthritis Sufffer and Advanced Degreed Chemist, I have tried this product. It works. The spray,NDC47219-102-52, works if used sublingual. I have experienced reduced pain in the nuckles and L4,L5 and S1 regions. His replys are… Read more »
Tim, That is the last post that I will allow from you. Since you are unable to actually provide evidence supporting your statements, and instead must resort to fallacies and unsupportable assertions, I have now blocked you from posting further. He apparently has some “stock related” issue with the makers of Cobroxin. I have already thorougly explained that my arguments regarding Cobroxin have nothing to do with NPHC. And again, even if it did, it would still not invalidate my statements regarding Cobroxin. He is very narrow minded No, I am evidence-based…something that you continue to struggle to understand the… Read more »
Your comments show your lack of basic scientific knowledge. Your web page is now spam.
Your comments show your lack of basic scientific knowledge Asserting something doesn’t make it so. You still haven’t been able to provide a shred of scientific evidence refuting any of the information I’ve presented in this blog. Everything I’ve provided in this blog has been science and evidence-based. I’m going to reiterate what I said to John because I don’t think you understand what it means to be evidence-based. None of my statements have been disproven. Not a single one. Everything I’ve stated is factual. Does Nutrapharma’s executives have shady pasts, including plagiarism and false advertising? Yes. Are there double-blind,… Read more »
I speak and write in two languages. Get an education.
You might want to stick to the other one then, you’re not doing very well with this one.
I said “remedies” not homeopathy. Learn to quote.
Homeopathic remedies ARE homeopathy. Learn English.
What I said is that drug purifications and use discoveries came from old remedies. Long before homeopathic or weighology (a vague term) terms were used. Example: willow bark was a treatment for pain before aspirin was synthesized.
You said the following:
“Homeopathic, and archaic remedies were used by native cultures with great success. Pharmacology was founded on many of these remedies.”
Pharmacology is not founded on homeopathy.
For having such a thorough understanding of physiology, I’m surprised you reference “Like cures like” for Cobroxin in your comments. Although it’s classified as a homeopathic treatment because of its lack of testing, the theoretical mechanism behind using cobra venom as an analgesic is not homeopathic. You’re certainly not suggesting that it would be used to increase pain so the body would react and counter it are you?
Matt,
The “like cures like” concept has nothing to do with Cobroxin. That comment was in response to Tim’s claim that pharmacology was based off of homeopathy. I was showing him that it isn’t.
Fair enough. I think it’s important to point out that Cobroxin is also not based on homeopathy so the point doesn’t get skewed in what seems to have turned into a cascade of unrelated comments. I did want to ask and comment about a few things in the blog post since you seem willing to respond. Where exactly in the Cobroxin insert does it refer to cobra venom as a cure for diabetes? I know I’ve seen NutraPharma point out the use of exendin-4 to treat diabetes as an example of another “natural” treatment on the market, but I’ve never… Read more »
Matt, Where exactly in the Cobroxin insert does it refer to cobra venom as a cure for diabetes? I know I’ve seen NutraPharma point out the use of exendin-4 to treat diabetes as an example of another “natural” treatment on the market, but I’ve never seen a claim that cobra venom has a similar use; I didn’t locate it in the insert, granted I did read through it very quickly. If you look at this list of studies here, you see references on the use of cobra venom to treat addiction, cancer, asthma, and diabetes (“The clinical treatment of diabetic… Read more »
Actually, Zhu et al. (1997) is only referenced to point out the minimal number of side effects that are associated with cobra venom (Table 6). The manufacturer does not list the study to claim cobra venom is a cure for diabetes and to claim so is inaccurate. The table includes a “Response” column (which by the way a 98% response in a 10 subject study makes it seem like some strange method of data collection was used haha) but no legend is included to clarify the data; the insert implies it refers to the effectiveness as a painkiller given different… Read more »
The manufacturer does not list the study to claim cobra venom is a cure for diabetes and to claim so is inaccurate. But you are constructing a strawman here. I never claimed that the manufacturer said that “cobra venom is a cure for diabetes.” This is what I said in my post: Another reason to be skeptical of Cobroxin is the long list of ailments that cobra venom or its components supposedly treat. In this document, the manufacturer lists the treatment of everything from pain to diabetes to cancer to addiction. Note I did not say cure, and I did… Read more »
My point is the fact that it takes you 2 paragraphs to clarify the exact meaning behind the words you used is a problem for me when reading it. You’re framing ideas. It may be a marker of pseudoscience, but it’s really not worth bringing up unless the company/manufacturer’s intent is to claim all of those ideas and market pseudoscience. Is it a marker of pseudoscience that lisinopril may help MS and hypertension? Obviously it’s not. NPHC isn’t claiming to have a “cure-all” or even multiple condition treatment option. Why encourage the reader to believe that’s the case? You’re correct… Read more »
You are the King of Red Herrings. That is the way you took off on this discussion throwing out obsurdisims.
I have been using Cobroxin for 5 days. (Spray: sublingual route). It is not a Placebo as some claim. I can definately tell the difference in my fingers and I do not wake up with stiffness in my back.
It is a good product and I recommend it.
Tim Mason
Analytical Chemist
Method Development and New Drug Discovery Chemist
You are the King of Red Herrings. This is the definition of a red herring. Everything I’ve presented has been relevant to assertions that you have made. Many statements you made are perfect examples of red herrings. For example, you stated that many mainstream doctors recommend vitamins, and also stated that you hoped I was fortunate enough to not get arthritis. These are red herrings because they are completely irrelevant to whether Cobroxin or glucosamine are due to real biological effects, or due to placebo effects. I could get rheumatoid arthritis, and every doctor could recommend vitamins, but that still… Read more »
You are obviously a Rush Limbaugh Republican. Someone that did not make it in mainstream University Chemistry Courses. You may have a degree in Health Physics. A PE Teacher turneed Weightologist. A “self-proclaimed” Intellectual.
What you are actually interested in the some lost stock deal with the producers of Cobroxin that went bad for you.
What is Weightology but the study of weghts? No Biochemical investigative experience.
What weight management gimics do you peddle?
Congratulations, Tim. I’m going to use your “arguments” as case examples of common fallacies in my future posts on my “Thinking Better” series. Since you have been unable to actually provide evidence refuting anything I’ve stated, you have to resort to these fallacies as a last ditch attempt to try to support the unsupportable. Let’s count them…. You are obviously a Rush Limbaugh Republican A perfect example of an ad hominem. Not only that, but it’s not even true (I’m not a Republican, and I agree with Al Franken that Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot). Someone that did… Read more »